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Rosie
Lebid toerin
2010 Messaggi |
 Inserito il - 15 luglio 2004 : 23:57:54
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Per caso ho trovato questo articolo di Franco Manni su The History of The Middle Earth:
http://home.insightbb.com/~sauron/histories.htm
Meraviglioso! Franco Manni ha cercato di riassumere (o tradurre da qualcuno che ha cercato di riassumere[;)]) brevemente le parti più salienti ed innovative contenute in questa raccolta di lavori di Tolkien.
Per chi non lo sapesse (tipo io...) Christopher Tolkien ha cercato di raccogliere qualunque cosa che il padre avesse scritto, oltre al Silmarillion ed i Racconti Incompiuti vi sono altri 12 volumi, di cui i racconti perduti e ritrovati fanno parte , gli altri mai tradotti ed arrivati in Italia, a causa di una litigata tra la Rusconi e Cristopher per la traduzione del terzo volumte a llui sottoposto.
Suppongo quindi che se la Rusconi ha l'esclusiva di distribuzione, e Christopher i diritti... la veggo dura!
Dicevamo, nella raccolta, oltre ad esserci tutte le varianti di Tolkien alle opere che conosciamo (come Frodo che si chiamava Bingo, o Granpasso che era un hobbit...[:0][:o)]), varianti, ampliamenti, vi sono trattati vari su elfi, istari e lingue, discusioni filosofiche, alcuni "Lay", cosmologie, poesie e scritti vari.
Qui trovate l'elenco dei contenuti brevissimamente descritti!
http://www.ardalambion.immaginario.net/MD/md_hm.htm
Tra tutti ho trovato interessantissimo "The Morghot's Ring" dove vi sono disquisizioni sulla morte e le prime idee di come la terra dovesse essere, le "Leggi e costumi degli Elfi" e dialoghi filosofici tra Valar e tra elfi ed una narrazione sulla caduta degli uomini...
..mi ha colpito incredibilmente il dialogo tra Valar sulla morte di Miriel (prima moglie Finwe, morta dopo aver dato alla luce Feanor)... e sul dibattito che ne segue sulla morte e la facoltà de Valar di impedirla, dove un Manwe -Tolkien spiega loro "l'utilità" del loro non coinvolgimento...e dei destini...
Vi è inoltre un interessantissima descrizione su Sauron quindi una riflessione su Saurone sul male in generale...
L'ho trovata una droga.. e volevo parlarne con voi..e soprattutto con chi ha avuto la possibilità a tenere in mano (e magari leggere l'originale...[:p][:D][:p])
E' tutto magnifico!!!
P.s. Non sapevo se aprire un topic qui.. o un intera sezione del forum!!!![:p][:D] ma Amon dice "vista l'addormentatura della gente, è melgio cominciare con un solo topic"... ed aggiunge "metti me compreso sennò sembra..."[:D][:D][:p][:p][;)]
"Ma è nel carattere della mia gente di meno di quel che pensiamo, temiamo di dire troppo. Quando uno scherzo è fuori posto ci defrauda della parole giuste..."
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Modificato da - Rosie in Data 16 luglio 2004 00:03:12
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Eärendil
Albero
Polentonia
964 Messaggi |
Inserito il - 16 luglio 2004 : 11:01:00
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Sul Morgoth ring ho avuto modo di parlare diffusamente in passato (senza essere molto cgato peraltro ^_^); è sicuramente il più interessante dei 12 libri, e fa un analisi molto approfondita della natura dei personaggi più oscuri dei suoi racconti, Morgoth e "Saurone", anche chiarendo le similitudini e le differenze tra i due, che non sono da poco.
Interessante poi la parte dedicata alla cosmogonia di Tolkien, dove viene introdotta una versione riveduta dell'universo tolkieniano, in quanto l'autore in tardi scritti aveva deciso di rendere il tutto più "scientificamente" plausibile.
Per cui la terra non era più piatta ma sferica, il sole non era uno spirito molto focoso ma un vero e proprio astro, e Arda era il nostro sistema solare e non l'intero universo. Tolkien giustificava il mito della nascita del sole e della luna e degli Alberi come antiche leggende umane, mentre gli Elfi ovviamente avevano sempre saputo la verità a riguardo.
L'autore non fece in tempo a rivedere le bozze dei suoi racconti, e a noi sono arrivati come li conosciamo, con la storia della nascita del sole e della luna e la terra piatta date come realtà consolidate.
Sempre nello stesso libro (credo) c'e' l'inizio del seguito del Sda, "The New Shadow", un racconto molto cupo, direi in stile Steven King come atmosfera, ambientato in Gondor un secolo dopo la morte di re Elessar, dove in un mondo ormai "reale" dominato dall'uomo, oscure sette adoranti il male prendevano posto del male incarnato dei precedenti racconti. Secondo me sarebbe stato un grande racconto di un Tolkien maturo, ma purtroppo egli stesso lo trovò un pò deprimente (quanto erano lontane le atmosfere idilliache della Contea....).
Ezechiele 25:17..:Il cammino dell'uomo timorato e'minacciato da ogni parte dalle iniquita' degli esseri egoisti e dalla tirannia degli uomini malvagi. Benedetto sia colui che nel nome ...... |
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Rosie
Lebid toerin
2010 Messaggi |
Inserito il - 16 luglio 2004 : 12:05:08
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(il tuo avatar mi rimpugna[:D]... e se Avatar significa la divina forma fisica... Ear...stai messo male![:p][;)])
Ho avuto occasione di leggere the new shadow ma sinceramente non l'ho trovata nello stile del professore, anzi! Sembrava scritta da chiunque...^_^ forse il motivo è proprio quello che dice lo stesso Tolkien, ovvero che anche lui, persa quell'atmosfera di grandi gesta, non era neanche lui nel mood...
A dire il vero nemmeno l'ambientazione non era delle più felici, abbastanza banale per la fervida creatività del nostro, in questo senso vorrei leggere e trovo molto più interessante l'altro suo romanzo abbozzato "The lost road" una specie di viaggio nel tempo compiuto da padre e figlio in varie ambientazioni... già nella descrizione della bozza, dove padre e figlio cercano di costruire questa macchina del tempo fino a che Elendil gli compare.... è da brividi!
Voglio rileggermi ancora una volta il passo sulla morte di Miriel perchè l'ho trovato grandioso... e poi vorrei conoscere melgio l'inglese per comprarmi i volumi...[:(]
P.s. Lo so Ear che più volte tu hai cercato di insinuare nelle nostre discussioni anche questo.. ma eravamo così giovani e stupidi...[:p][;)]
Ora, abbiamo bisogno di te... anzi, se dovessi fare una pagina dedicata a questo... tu, mi daresti una mano per i contenuti?[:D]
"Ma è nel carattere della mia gente di meno di quel che pensiamo, temiamo di dire troppo. Quando uno scherzo è fuori posto ci defrauda della parole giuste..."
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Modificato da - Rosie in data 16 luglio 2004 12:09:37 |
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Eärendil
Albero
Polentonia
964 Messaggi |
Inserito il - 16 luglio 2004 : 12:33:34
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Secondo me ti sbagli.. devi considerare che quella era solo una bozza.. non la versione definitiva (e conoscendo il modo di lavorare del Prof puoi star sicura che lo avrebbe modificato cento volte se lo avesse continuato fino in fondo). Credo che cmq sarebbe venuto fuori un gran racconto, il talento di Tolkien è indiscutibile e mi sarebbe piaciuto vederlo affrontare questo mondo "di mezzo" tra l'epoca mitica dei racconti precedenti e la nostra. Dell'altro racconto di cui accenni ne ho solo sentito parlare ma sicuramente sarebbe stato uno spunto interessante (forse Tolkien era affascinato dai racconti fantascientifici di certi scrittori suoi amici intimi..).
Ps:se farai una pagina dedicata a questi arogmenti molto interessanti sarò lieto di dare il mio contributo :)
Pss: che hai contro Leone di Lernia?
Ezechiele 25:17..:Il cammino dell'uomo timorato e'minacciato da ogni parte dalle iniquita' degli esseri egoisti e dalla tirannia degli uomini malvagi. Benedetto sia colui che nel nome ...... |
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AmonSûl
Sveltamente
Nowhere Land
4501 Messaggi |
Inserito il - 16 luglio 2004 : 12:34:23
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anzitutto, l'Ear ha messo la propria foto come Avatar!!!
Forse questo segnerà una svolta nelle mode avatariane del forum...
inoltre...
ricordo il racconto "the new shadow", postato sul vecchio forum... e tutte le discussioni se fosse o meno nello spirito di Tolkien...
penso che fosse semplicemente un Tolkien che ridiventava "umano" per unire la mitologia al mondo odierno... ^^
essendo comunque solo una bozza mancava del necessario respiro...
forse anche di una fiducia nell'uomo, anche a causa del suo pessimismo cresciuto o nato durante la guerra...
rosie o ear, potreste postare qualche brano... magari anche in inglese al limite... (se non volete tradurlo ^^)
magari iniziando proprio da "the new shadow"
leggendo lo sprazzo di brano riferito alla prima versione della lotta tra il Balrog e Gandalf (non quelli del forum, neh?) si nota come il materiale sia grezzo, il professore non vi abbia ancora aggiunto quella "grazia" con cui creava i suoi capolavori...
"Il Balrog si precipitò verso il ponte. Legolas alzò il suo arco, ma una freccia lo ferì alla spalla e l'arco cadde inutilizzato. Gandalf si fermò in mezzo al ponte. Nella sua mano scintillava Glamdring. Nella sinistra teneva il suo bastone. Il Balrog avanzò e si fermò fissandolo. Di colpo con uno sgorgo di fiamme saltò sul ponte, ma Gandalf rimase fermo. "Non puoi passare" disse "torna negli abissi infuocati. E' proibito a un Balrog avvicinarsi al cielo da quando Fionwe figlio di Manwe rase al suolo Thangorodrim. Io sono il signore del Bianco Fuoco. La fiamma rossa non può passare da qui". La creatura non rispose, ma si erse in alto così da incombere sullo stregone, avanzò a grandi passi e lo colpì. Una cortina di fiamme bianche sprizzò davanti a lui come uno scudo , e il Balrog cadde all'indietro con la spada frantumata in pezzi fusi e fece per fuggire. Ma il bastone di Gandalf si ruppe e cadde dalla sua mano. Con un sibilo affannoso il Balrog spiccò un balzo; sembrava essere mezzo cieco ma arrivò e cercò di afferrare lo stregone. Glamdring colpì il suo artiglio destro ormai vuoto, ma nel momento in cui Gandalf assestava il colpo il Balrog usò la sua frusta. Gli scudisci si avvinghiarono attorno alle ginocchia dello stregone che barcollò. Stringendo l'arco di Legolas, Gimli scoccò una freccia che però si perse. Grampasso con un balzo tornò sul ponte con la sua spada. Ma in quel momento un grosso troll venne fuori dall'altra parte e saltò sul ponte. Ci fu un terribile schianto e il ponte si ruppe. Tutta la sua estremità occidentale crollò. Con un urlo spaventoso il troll precipitò e il Balrog inciampò di lato e ringhiando cadde nell'abisso. Prima che Granpasso potesse raggiungere lo stregone, il ponte si ruppe davanti ai suoi piedi e con un gran grido precipitò nell'oscurità."
per quanto riguarda il resto prima di parlarne vorrei conoscerlo meglio... quindi datevi da fare ^_________^
V V V
te ne eri accorto e hai accelerato, eh?[:o)]
_________
ore infinite come costellazioni e onde... spietate come gli occhi della memoria
altra memoria e non basta ancora... cose svanite, facce...
e poi il futuro... [:115] |
Modificato da - AmonSûl in data 16 luglio 2004 12:56:13 |
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Eärendil
Albero
Polentonia
964 Messaggi |
Inserito il - 16 luglio 2004 : 12:36:54
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amonzio .. ti ho preceduto di un attimo e abbiamo detto + o - le stesse cose (gne gne )
Comunque, ti prendo in parola e incollo paro paro il capitolo del libro relativo a ciò di cui si parla( speriamo non mi veda Christopher ;)).
E' una notevole pappardella, ma interessante:
PART FOUR.
UNFINISHED TALES.
XVI.
THE NEW SHADOW.
This story, or fragment of a story, is now published for the first time,
though its existence has long been known.(1) The textual history is not
complicated, but there is a surprising amount of it.
There is, first, a collection of material in manuscript, beginning with
two sides of a page carrying the original opening of the story: this goes
no further than the recollection of the young man (here called Egal-
moth)(2) of the rebuke and lecture that he received from Borlas (3) when
caught by him stealing apples from his orchard as a boy. There is then
a text, which I will call 'A', written in rapid but clear script, and this
extends as far as the story ever went (here also the young man's
name is Egalmoth). This was followed by a typescript in top copy and
carbon 'B', which follows A pretty closely and ends at the same point:
there are a great many small changes in expression, but nothing that
alters the narrative in even minor ways (the young man, however, now
bears the name Arthael). There is also an amanuensis typescript
derived from B, without independent value.(4)
Finally, there is another typescript, 'C', also with carbon copy,
which extends only to the point in the story where the young man -
here named Saelon (5) - leaves Borlas in his garden 'searching back in his
mind to discover how this strange and alarming conversation had
begun' (p. 416). This text C treats B much as B treats A: altering the
expression (fairly radically in places), but in no way altering the story,
or giving to it new bearings.
It seems strange that my father should have made no less than three
versions, each showing very careful attention to improvement of the
text in detail, when the story had proceeded for so short a distance.
The evidence of the typewriters used suggests, however, that C was
made very substantially later. The machine on which B was typed was
the one he used in the 1950s before the acquisition of that referred to
in X.300, while the italic script of A could with some probability be
ascribed to that time; but the typewriter used for C was his last.(6)
In his Biography (p. 228) Humphrey Carpenter stated that in 1965
my father 'found a typescript of "The New Shadow", a sequel to
The Lord of the Rings which he had begun a long time ago but
had abandoned after a few pages.... He sat up till four a.m. read-
ing it and thinking about it.' I do not know the source of this state-
ment; but further evidence is provided by a used envelope, postmarked
8 January 1968, on the back of which my father scribbled a passage
concerning Borlas, developing further the account of his circum-
stances at the time of the opening of the story (see note 14). This is
certain evidence that he was still concerned with The New Shadow as
late as 1968; and since the passage roughed out here would follow on
from the point reached in the typescript C (see note 14) it seems very
likely that C dates from that time.
Such as the evidence is, then, the original work (represented by the
manuscript A and the typescript B) derives from the 1950s. In a letter
of 13 May 1964 (Letters no.256) he wrote:
I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall [of
Sauron], but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are
dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with
the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety
with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice
and prosperity, would become discontented and restless - while the
dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and
governors - like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there
was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret
Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being
Orcs and going round doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller'
about the plot and its discovery and overthrow - but it would be
just that. Not worth doing.
From the evidence given above, however, it is seen that his interest in
the story was subsequently reawakened, and even reached the point
of making a new (though incomplete) version of what he had written
of it years before. But in 1972, fifteen months before his death, he
wrote to his friend Douglas Carter (Letters no.338):
I have written nothing beyond the first few years of the Fourth Age.
(Except the beginning of a tale supposed to refer to the end of
the reign of Eldarion about 100 years after the death of Aragorn.
Then I of course discovered that the King's Peace would contain
no tales worth recounting; and his wars would have little interest
after the overthrow of Sauron; but that almost certainly a restless-
ness would appear about then, owing to the (it seems) inevitable
boredom of Men with the good: there would be secret societies
practising dark cults, and 'orc-cults' among adolescents.)
To form the text that now follows I print C so far as it goes, with the
sinister young man given the name Saelon; and from that point I give
the text of B, changing the name from Arthael in B to Saelon.
THE NEW SHADOW.
This tale begins in the days of Eldarion, son of that Elessar of
whom the histories have much to tell. One hundred and five
years had passed since the fall of the Dark Tower,(7) and the story
of that time was little heeded now by most of the people of
Gondor, though a few were still living who could remember the
War of the Ring as a shadow upon their early childhood. One
of these was old Borlas of Pen-arduin. He was the younger son
of Beregond, the first Captain of the Guard of Prince Faramir,
who had removed with his lord from the City to the Emyn
Arnen.(8)
'Deep indeed run the roots of Evil,' said Borlas, 'and the black
sap is strong in them. That tree will never be slain. Let men hew
it as often as they may, it will thrust up shoots again as soon as
they turn aside. Not even at the Feast of Felling should the axe
be hung up on the wall! '
'Plainly you think you are speaking wise words,' said Saelon.
'I guess that by the gloom in your voice, and by the nodding of
your head. But what is this all about? Your life seems fair
enough still, for an aged man that does not now go far abroad.
Where have you found a shoot of your dark tree growing? In
your own garden?'
Borlas looked up, and as he glanced keenly at Saelon he
wondered suddenly if this young man, usually gay and often
half mocking, had more in his mind than appeared in his face.
Borlas had not intended to open his heart to him, but being
burdened in thought he had spoken aloud, more to himself than
his companion. Saelon did not return his glance. He was hum-
ming softly, while he trimmed a whistle of green willow with a
sharp nail-knife.
The two were sitting in an arbour near the steep eastern shore
of Anduin where it flowed about the feet of the hills of Arnen.
They were indeed in Borlas's garden and his small grey-stone
house could be seen through the trees above them on the hill-
slope facing west. Borlas looked at the river, and at the trees in
their June leaves, and then far off to the towers of the City under
the glow of late afternoon. 'No, not in my garden,' he said
thoughtfully.
'Then why are you so troubled?' asked Saelon. 'If a man has
a fair garden with strong walls, then he has as much as any man
can govern for his own pleasure.' He paused. 'As long as he
keeps the strength of life in him,' he added. 'When that fails,
why trouble about any lesser ill? For then he must soon leave his
garden at last, and others must look to the weeds.'
Borlas sighed, but he did not answer, and Saelon went on:
'But there are of course some who will not be content, and to
their life's end they trouble their hearts about their neighbours,
and the City, and the Realm, and all the wide world. You are
one of them, Master Borlas, and have ever been so, since I first
knew you as a boy that you caught in your orchard. Even then
you were not content to let ill alone: to deter me with a beating,
or to strengthen your fences. No. You were grieved and wanted
to improve me. You had me into your house and talked to me.
'I remember it well. "Orcs' work," you said many times.
"Stealing good fruit, well, I suppose that is no worse than boys'
work, if they are hungry, or their fathers are too easy. But
pulling down unripe apples to break or cast away! That is Orcs'
work. How did you come to do such a thing, lad?"
'Orcs' work! I was angered by that, Master Borlas, and too
proud to answer, though it was in my heart to say in child's
words: "If it was wrong for a boy to steal an apple to eat, then
it is wrong to steal one to play with. But not more wrong. Don't
speak to me of Orcs' work, or I may show you some!"
'It was a mistake, Master Borlas. For I had heard tales of the
Orcs and their doings, but I had not been interested till then.
You turned my mind to them. I grew out of petty thefts (my
father was not too easy), but I did not forget the Orcs. I began
to feel hatred and think of the sweetness of revenge. We played
at Orcs, I and my friends, and sometimes I thought: "Shall I
gather my band and go and cut down his trees? Then he will
think that the Orcs have really returned." But that was a long
time ago,' Saelon ended with a smile.
Borlas was startled. He was now receiving confidences, not
giving them. And there was something disquieting in the young
man's tone, something that made him wonder whether deep
down, as deep as the roots of the dark trees, the childish resent-
ment did not still linger. Yes, even in the heart of Saelon, the
friend of his own son, and the young man who had in the last
few years shown him much kindness in his loneliness.(9) At any
rate he resolved to say no more of his own thoughts to him.
'Alas!' he said, 'we all make mistakes. I do not claim wisdom,
young man, except maybe the little that one may glean with the
passing of the years. From which I know well enough the
sad truth that those who mean well may do more harm than
those who let things be. I am sorry now for what I said, if it
roused hate in your heart. Though I still think that it was just:
untimely maybe, and yet true. Surely even a boy must under-
stand that fruit is fruit, and does not reach its full being until it
is ripe; so that to misuse it unripe is to do worse than just to rob
the man that has tended it: it robs the world, hinders a good
thing from fulfilment. Those who do so join forces with all that
is amiss, with the blights and the cankers and the ill winds. And
that was the way of Orcs.'
'And is the way of Men too,' said Saelon. 'No! I do not mean
of wild men only, or those who grew "under the Shadow", as
they say. I mean all Men. I would not misuse green fruit now,
but only because I have no longer any use for unripe apples,
not for your lofty reasons, Master Borlas. Indeed I think your
reasons as unsound as an apple that has been too long in store.
To trees all Men are Orcs. Do Men consider the fulfilment of
the life-story of a tree before they cut it down? For whatever
purpose: to have its room for tilth, to use its flesh as timber or
as fuel, or merely to open the view? If trees were the judges,
would they set Men above Orcs, or indeed above the cankers
and blights? What more right, they might ask, have Men to feed
on their juices than blights?'
'A man,' said Borlas, 'who tends a tree and guards it from
blights and many other enemies does not act like an Orc or a
canker. If he eats its fruit, he does it no injury. It produces fruit
more abundantly than it needs for its own purpose: the con-
tinuing of its kind.'
'Let him eat the fruit then, or play with it,' said Saelon. 'But I
spoke of slaying: hewing and burning; and by what right men
do such things to trees.'
'You did not. You spoke of the judgement of trees in these
matters. But trees are not judges. The children of the One are
the masters. My judgement as one of them you know already.
The evils of the world were not at first in the great Theme, but
entered with the discords of Melkor. Men did not come with
these discords; they entered afterwards as a new thing direct
from Eru, the One, and therefore they are called His children,
and all that was in the Theme they have, for their own good,
the right to use - rightly, without pride or wantonness, but with
reverence.(10)
'If the smallest child of a woodman feels the cold of winter,
the proudest tree is not wronged, if it is bidden to surrender its
flesh to warm the child with fire. But the child must not mar
the tree in play or spite, rip its bark or break its branches. And
the good husbandman will use first, if he can, dead wood or an
old tree; he will not fell a young tree and leave it to rot, for no
better reason than his pleasure in axe-play. That is orkish.
'But it is even as I said: the roots of Evil lie deep, and from far
off comes the poison that works in us, so that many do these
things - at times, and become then indeed like the servants of
Melkor. But the Orcs did these things at all times; they did harm
with delight to all things that could suffer it, and they were
restrained only by lack of power, not by either prudence or
mercy. But we have spoken enough of this.'
'Why!' said Saelon. 'We have hardly begun. It was not of your
orchard, nor your apples, nor of me, that you were thinking
when you spoke of the re-arising of the dark tree. What you
were thinking of, Master Borlas, I can guess nonetheless. I have
eyes and ears, and other senses, Master.' His voice sank low and
could scarcely be heard above the murmur of a sudden chill
wind in the leaves, as the sun sank behind Mindolluin. 'You
have heard then the name?' With hardly more than breath he
formed it. 'Of Herumor?'(11)
Borlas looked at him with amazement and fear. His mouth
made tremulous motions of speech, but no sound came from it.
'I see that you have,' said Saelon. 'And you seem astonished
to learn that I have heard it also. But you are not more aston-
ished than I was to see that this name has reached you. For, as I
say, I have keen eyes and ears, but yours are now dim even for
daily use, and the matter has been kept as secret as cunning
could contrive.'
'Whose cunning?' said Borlas, suddenly and fiercely. The
sight of his eyes might be dim, but they blazed now with anger.
'Why, those who have heard the call of the name, of course,'
answered Saelon unperturbed. 'They are not many yet, to set
against all the people of Gondor, but the number is growing.
Not all are content since the Great King died, and fewer now are
afraid.'
'So I have guessed,' said Borlas, 'and it is that thought that
chills the warmth of summer in my heart. For a man may have
a garden with strong walls, Saelon, and yet find no peace or con-
tent there. There are some enemies that such walls will not keep
out; for his garden is only part of a guarded realm after all. It is
to the walls of the realm that he must look for his real defence.
But what is the call? What would they do?' he cried, laying his
hand on the young man's knee.
'I will ask you a question first before I answer yours,' said
Saelon; and now he looked searchingly at the old man. 'How
have you, who sit here in the Emyn Arnen and seldom go now
even to the City - how have you heard the whispers of this
name?'
Borlas looked down on the ground and clasped his hands
between his knees. For some time he did not answer. At last he
looked up again; his face had hardened and his eyes were more
wary. 'I will not answer that, Saelon,' he said. 'Not until I have
asked you yet another question. First tell me,' he said slowly,
'are you one of those who have listened to the,call?'
A strange smile flickered about the young man's mouth.
'Attack is the best defence,' he answered, 'or so the Captains tell
us; but when both sides use this counsel there is a clash of battle.
So I will counter you. I will not answer you, Master Borlas, until
you tell me: are you one of those who have listened, or no?'
'How can you think it?' cried Borlas.
'And how can you think it?' asked Saelon.
'As for me,' said Borlas, 'do not all my words give you the
answer?'
'But as for me, you would say,' said Saelon, 'my words might
make me doubtful? Because I defended a small boy who threw
unripe apples at his playmates from the name of Orc? Or
because I spoke of the suffering of trees at the hands of men?
Master Borlas, it is unwise to judge a man's heart from words
spoken in an argument without respect for your opinions. They
may be meant to disturb you. Pert maybe, but possibly better
than a mere echo.(12) I do not doubt that many of those we spoke
of would use words as solemn as yours, and speak reverently of
the Great Theme and such things - in your presence. Well, who
shall answer first?'
'The younger it would have been in the courtesy of old,' said
Borlas; 'or between men counted as equals, the one who was
first asked. You are both.'
Saelon smiled. 'Very well,' he said. 'Let me see: the first
question that you asked unanswered was: what is the call, what
would they do? Can you find no answer in the past for all your
age and lore? I am young and less learned. Still, if you really
wish to know, I could perhaps make the whispers clearer to
you.'
He stood up. The sun had set behind the mountains; shadows
were deepening. The western wall of Borlas's house on the hill-
side was yellow in the afterglow, but the river below was dark.
He looked up at the sky, and then away down the Anduin. 'It is
a fair evening still,' he said, 'but the wind has shifted eastward.
There will be clouds over the moon tonight.'
'Well, what of it?' said Borlas, shivering a little as the air
chilled. 'Unless you mean only to warn an old man to hasten
indoors and keep his bones from aching.' He rose and turned to
the path towards his house, thinking that the young man meant
to say no more; but Saelon stepped up beside him and laid a
hand on his arm.
'I warn you rather to clothe yourself warmly after nightfall,'
he said. 'That is, if you wish to learn more; for if you do, you
will come with me on a journey tonight. I will meet you at your
eastern gate behind your house; or at least I shall pass that way
as soon as it is full dark, and you shall come or not as you will.
I shall be clad in black, and anyone who goes with me must be
clad alike. Farewell now, Master Borlas! Take counsel with
yourself while the light lasts.'
With that Saelon bowed and turned away, going along
another path that ran near the edge of the steep shore, away
northward to the house of his father.(13) He disappeared round a
bend while his last words were still echoing in Borlas's ears.
For some while after Saelon had gone Borlas stood still,
covering his eyes and resting his brow against the cool bark of
a tree beside the path. As he stood he searched back in his mind
to discover how this strange and alarming conversation had
begun. What he would do after nightfall he did not yet consider.
He had not been in good spirits since the spring, though well
enough in body for his age, which burdened him less than his
loneliness.(14) Since his son, Berelach,(15) had gone away again in
April - he was in the Ships, and now lived mostly near Pelargir
where his duty was - Saelon had been most attentive, whenever
he was at home. He went much about the lands of late. Borlas
was not sure of his business, though he understood that, among
other interests, he dealt in timber. He brought news from all
over the kingdom to his old friend. Or to his friend's old father;
for Berelach had been his constant companion at one time,
though they seemed seldom to meet nowadays.
'Yes, that was it,' Borlas said to himself. 'I spoke to Saelon of
Pelargir, quoting Berelach. There has been some small disquiet
down at the Ethir: a few shipmen have disappeared, and also a
small vessel of the Fleet. Nothing much, according to Berelach.
'"Peace makes things slack," he said, I remember, in the voice
of an under-officer. "Well, they went off on some ploy of their
own, I suppose - friends in one of the western havens, perhaps
- without leave and without a pilot, and they were drowned. It
serves them right. We get too few real sailors these days. Fish are
more profitable. But at least all know that the west coasts are
not safe for the unskilled."
'That was all. But I spoke of it to Saelon, and asked if he had
heard anything of it away south. "Yes," he said, "I did. Few
were satisfied with the official view. The men were not
unskilled; they were sons of fishermen. And there have been no
storms off the coasts for a long time.>
As he heard Saelon say this, suddenly Borlas had remembered
the other rumours, the rumours that Othrondir (16) had spoken
of. It was he who had used the word 'canker'. And then half to
himself Borlas had spoken aloud about the Dark Tree.
He uncovered his eyes and fondled the shapely trunk of
the tree that he had leaned on, looking up at its shadowy
leaves against the clear fading sky. A star glinted through the
branches. Softly he spoke again, as if to the tree.
'Well, what is to be done now? Clearly Saelon is in it. But is
it clear? There was the sound of mockery in his words, and
scorn of the ordered life of Men. He would not answer a
straight question. The black clothes! And yet - why invite me to
go with him? Not to convert old Borlas! Useless. Useless to try:
no one would hope to win over a man who remembered the Evil
of old, however far off. Useless if one succeeded: old Borlas is
of no use any longer as a tool for any hand. Saelon might be
trying to play the spy, seeking to find out what lies behind
the whispers. Black might be a disguise, or an aid to stealth
by night. But again, what could I do to help on any secret or
dangerous errand? I should be better out of the way.'
With that a cold thought touched Borlas's heart. Put out of
the way - was that it? He was to be lured to some place where
he could disappear, like the Shipmen? The invitation to go with
Saelon had been given only after he had been startled into
revealing that he knew of the whispers - had even heard the
name. And he had declared his hostility.
This thought decided Borlas, and he knew that he was
resolved now to stand robed in black at the gate in the first dark
of night. He was challenged, and he would accept. He smote his
palm against the tree. 'I am not a dotard yet, Neldor,' he said;
'but death is not so far off that I shall lose many good years, if
I lose the throw.'
He straightened his back and lifted his head, and walked
away up the path, slowly but steadily. The thought crossed his
mind even as he stepped over the threshold: 'Perhaps I have
been preserved so long for this purpose: that one should still
live, hale in mind, who remembers what went before the Great
Peace. Scent has a long memory. I think I could still smell the old
Evil, and know it for what it is.'
The door under the porch was open; but the house behind
was darkling. There seemed none of the accustomed sounds of
evening, only a soft silence, a dead silence. He entered, wonder-
ing a little. He called, but there was no answer. He halted in the
narrow passage that ran through the house, and it seemed that
he was wrapped in a blackness: not a glimmer of twilight of the
world outside remained there. Suddenly he smelt it, or so it
seemed, though it came as it were from within outwards to the
sense: he smelt the old Evil and knew it for what it was.
Here, both in A and B, The New Shadow ends, and it will never be
known what Borlas found in his dark and silent house, nor what part
Saelon was playing and what his intentions were. There would be no
tales worth the telling in the days of the King's Peace, my father said;
and he disparaged the story that he had begun: 'I could have written a
"thriller" about the plot and its discovery and overthrow - but it
would be just that. Not worth doing.' It would nonetheless have been
a very remarkable 'thriller', and one may well view its early abandon-
ment with regret. But it may be that his reason for abandoning it was
not only this - or perhaps rather that in saying this he was expressing
a deeper conviction: that the vast structure of story, in many forms,
that he had raised came to its true end in the Downfall of Sauron. As
he wrote (Morgoth's Ring p. 404): 'Sauron was a problem that Men
had to deal with finally: the first of the many concentrations of Evil
into definite power-points that they would have to combat, as it was
also the last of those in "mythological" personalized (but non-human)
form.'
NOTES.
1. It has also been read publicly, by myself (Sheldonian Theatre,
Oxford, 18 August 1992). At that time, not having studied the
papers with sufficient care, I was under the impression that text
B was the latest, and it was this that I read - the young man's
name being therefore Arthael.
2. In the original draft of the opening of the story (preceding A)
the name was first written Almoth, but changed immediately
to Egalmoth. The original Egalmoth was the lord of the people
of the Heavenly Arch in Gondolin; it was also the name of the
eighteenth Ruling Steward of Gondor.
3. Borlas was the name of the eldest son of Bor the Easterling, later
changed to Borlad (XI.240); he was slain in the Battle of Unnum-
bered Tears, faithful to the Eldar.
4. The first page of this was typed on the machine that my father
first used about the end of 1958 (X.300), and the remainder on
the previous one (that used for text B).
5. The name Saelon is found in drafting for the Athrabeth Finrod ah
Andreth as a name of the wise-woman Andreth of the Edain, who
debated with Finrod; in the final text this became Saelind, trans-
lated 'Wise-heart' (X.305, 351-2).
6. This is the machine on which the very late 'historical-etymologi-
cal' essays were typed, and which I use to this day.
7. A puzzling question is raised by this dating, concerning the his-
torical period in which the story is set. In the opening paragraph
the original draft (preceding A) has:
It was in the days of Eldarion, son of that Elessar of whom
ancient histories have much to tell, that this strange thing
occurred. It was indeed less than one hundred and twenty years
since the fall of the Dark Tower ...
The first complete text, the manuscript A, has: 'Nearly one hun-
dred and ten years had passed since the fall of the Dark Tower',
and this is repeated in B. My father typed the opening page of the
late text C in two closely similar forms, and in the first of these
he retained the reading of A and B, but in the second (printed
here) he wrote 'One hundred and five years'. In the letter of 1964
cited on p. 410 he said 'about 100 years after the Downfall',
and in that of 1972 (ibid.) 'about 100 years after the death of
Aragorn'. We thus have, in chronological order of their appear-
ance, the following dates after the fall of the Dark Tower:
less than 120 years (original opening of the story);
nearly 110 years (A and B);
about 100 years (letter of 1964);
nearly 110 years (first copy of the opening page of C, c.1968);
105 years (second copy of the opening page of C).
The fall of the Dark Tower took place in the year 3019 of the
Third Age, and that Age was held to have been concluded at the
end of 3021; thus the dates from the fall of the Tower (in the same
order, and making them for brevity definite rather than approxi-
mate) are Fourth Age 118, 108, 98, 108, 103. Thus every date
given in the texts (and that in the letter of 1964) places the story
before the death of Aragorn - which took place in Fourth Age
120 = Shire Reckoning 1541 (Appendix B, at end); yet every one
of the texts refers it to the days of his son Eldarion.
The solution of this must lie in the fact that in the First Edition
of The Lord of the Rings (ibid.) Aragorn's death was placed
twenty years earlier, in Shire Reckoning 1521, i.e. Fourth Age
100. The date given in the letter of 1964 ('about 100 years after
the Downfall') is indeed too early even according to the dating of
the First Edition, but that is readily explained as being a rough
approximation appropriate in the context. More puzzling are the
dates given in the two versions of the first page of the late text C"
which do not agree with the date of Aragorn's death in the
Second Edition (1966). The first of these ('nearly 110 years') can
be explained as merely taking up the reading of text B, which my
father was following; but in the second version he evidently gave
thought to the date, for he changed it to '105 years': that is,
Fourth Age 103. I am at a loss to explain this.
In the letter of 1972 he gave a much later date, placing the
story in about Fourth Age 220 (and giving to Eldarion a reign of
at least 100 years).
8. See The Return of the King (chapter The Steward and the King),
p. 247.
9. Both A and B have 'sons' for 'son', and they do not have the
words 'in his loneliness'. With the latter difference cf. the last
sentence of the C text and its difference from B (note 14).
10. This passage in the argument was expressed rather differently in
B (which was following A almost exactly):
'A man,' said Borlas, 'who tends a tree and guards it from
blights, and eats its fruit - which it produces more abundantly
than its mere life-need; not that eating the fruit need destroy
the seed - does not act like a canker, nor like an Orc.
'But as for the cankers, I wonder. They live, it might be said,
and yet their life is death. I do not believe that they were part
of the Music of the Ainur, unless in the discords of Melkor. And
so with Orcs.'
'And what of Men?' said Arthael.
'Why do you ask?' said Borlas. 'You know, surely, what is
taught? They were not at first in the Great Music, but they did
not enter with the discords of Melkor: they came from Iluvatar
himself, and therefore they are called the Children of God. And
all that is in the Music they have a right to use - rightly: which
is with reverence, not with pride or wantonness.'
11. The name Herumor is found in Of the Rings of Power and
the Third Age (The Silmarillion p. 293) as that of a renegade
Numenorean who became powerful among the Haradrim in the
time before the war of the Last Alliance.
12. B (exactly repeating A) has here: 'No, Master Borlas, in such a
matter one cannot judge words by the shape they are spoken in.'
13. A has here 'his father Duilin'. This, like Egalmoth, is another
name from the story of Gondolin: Duilin was the leader of the
people of the Swallow, who fell from the battlements when 'smit-
ten by a fiery bolt of the Balrogs' (II.178). It was also the original
name of the father of Flinding, later Gwindor, of Nargothrond
(II.79, etc.): Duilin > Fuilin > Guilin.
14. At this point C comes to an end, at the foot of a page. B has here:
'He had not been in good health since the spring; old age was
gaining upon him' (see note 9). From here onwards, as noted
earlier, I follow text B, changing the name Arthael to Saelon. -
The passage written on an envelope postmarked 8 January 1968,
referred to on pp. 409-10, would follow from this point in C; it
reads (the last phrases being very difficult to make out):
For he lived now with only two old servants, retired from the
Prince's guard, in which he himself had once held office. Long
ago his daughter had married and now lived in distant parts of
the realm, and then ten years ago his wife had died. Time had
softened his grief, while Berelach [his son] was still near home.
He was his youngest child and only son, and was in the King's
ships; for several years he had been stationed at the Harlond
within easy reach by water, and spent much time with his
father. But it was three years now since he had been given a
high command, and was often long at sea, and when on land
duty still held him at Pelargir far away. His visits had been
few and brief. Saelon, who formerly came only when Berelach
[? ... been his old friend] was with Borlas, but had been most
attentive when he was in Emyn Arnen. Always in to talk or
bring news, or [?run] any service he could
For the site of 'the quays and landings of the Harlond' see The
Return of the King (chapter Minas Tirith), p. 22.
15. Borlas is described at the beginning of the story as the younger
son of Beregond, and he was thus the brother of Bergil son
of Beregond who was Pippin's companion in Minas Tirith. In
A Borlas gave the name Bergil to his own son (preceded by
Berthil ).
16. For Othrondir A has Othrondor.
x rosie: prego.. sempre io cmq fui quel qualcuno che lo postò in italiano.
Per quanto riguarda il link dove ho "comprato" le History, è stato barbaramente freddato tempo fa...sigh[:(]
Ezechiele 25:17..:Il cammino dell'uomo timorato e'minacciato da ogni parte dalle iniquita' degli esseri egoisti e dalla tirannia degli uomini malvagi. Benedetto sia colui che nel nome ...... |
Modificato da - Eärendil in data 16 luglio 2004 19:52:40 |
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Rosie
Lebid toerin
2010 Messaggi |
Inserito il - 16 luglio 2004 : 18:50:51
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Qualcuno lo postò anche in italiano... (grazie ear, ma la nostra ignoranza è tanta...[:D])
Mi sono riletta quel pezzo stupendo che vi dicevo di colloqui tra Manwe e gli altri Valar...
Ve lo riporto perchè è di una profondità coinvolgente:
Quando Miriel morì perché spossata dalla gravidanza di Feanor, il marito Finwe, che era ancora giovane e desideroso di altri figli, chiese a Manwe il permesso di risposarsi. Manwe chiese a Miriel - che era nelle aule di Mandos - se voleva reincarnarsi e lei rispose di no (non trovava in sè stessa più alcun desiderio di vita, almeno all’interno dei confini di Arda), così Manwe diede il permesso a Finwe di sposarsi ancora, e lui lo fece con la sorella di Ingwe, la Vanyar Indis. I Valar dibatterono molto il caso di Miriel e Finwe, perché era eccezionale che una persona morisse a Valinor: qualche Vala , pur ritenendo giusta la decisione, pensò che essa anziché curare l’afflizione la avrebbe perpetuata. Ma Manwe rispose :
dobbiamo ricordarci che oramai Arda è corrotta [se l’Anello del maia Sauron era un cerchietto di metallo, l’Anello del supremo vala Melkor era l’intera Arda], e in Arda-corrotta la giustizia non è guarigione. In Arda-corrotta la guarigione viene solo attraverso la sofferenza e la pazienza, e non fa nessuna richiesta, neanche una richiesta di giustizia. In Arda-corrotta la giustizia rimane una cosa buona in sé stessa e mai accresce il male, però se applicata - come ormai è inevitabile - a un mondo in cui il male c’è già , la sua applicazione non fa che perpetuarlo, e non gli impedisce di partorire i suoi amari frutti. Perciò la decisione di Manwe era giusta, ma essa accettava il fatto della Morte e della separazione tra Finwe e Miriel , una cosa innaturale in Arda Non Corrotta, e quindi la libertà che essa dava a Finwe (di risposarsi) era una “strada inferiore”, che, se non avrebbe portato ulteriormente più in basso, non avrebbe però potuto portare alla risalita. Ma la Guarigione deve sempre conservare il pensiero di Arda Non Corrotta, e, se non è possibile risalire, bisogna tener fede ad esso nella pazienza . Questa è la Speranza che, io credo, è prima di tutte le altre la virtù più adatta ai Figli di Eru (virtù la cui venuta però non può essere comandata quando se ne sente il bisogno: la pazienza spesso deve aspettarla a lungo)
Tutto il dibattito che segue alle parole di Manwe è molto interessante (intervengono, con pareri diversi, Aule, Ulmo, Yavanna, Nienna) è un esempio raro (per quelle che sono le mie conoscenze culturali) di incarnazione di un profondo pensiero teologico in un’artistica narrativa di fiction. Quindi Manwe parlò di nuovo:
Aule e Nienna errano, io credo. Entrambi, per quanto con parole differenti, hanno detto che la Morte che è venuta dal Corruttore è una cosa, e la Morte che è uno strumento di Eru è un’altra cosa distinguibile dalla prima. La prima essendo malvagia e inevitabilmente portatrice di afflizione; la seconda non malvagia e quindi senza afflizione e facile da guarire. Essi hanno torto perché la malvagità e l’afflizione del morire risiedono nella mera scissione della natura vivente, scissione che è comune a entrambe le Morti (altrimenti non si chiamerebbero Morti), ed entrambe le Morti avvengono solamente in Arda-corrotta in accordo con i processi di essa
Quindi penso che abbia piuttosto ragione Ulmo, che ritiene che Eru non desideri una cosa malvagia - come la Morte -quale speciale strumento della sua benevolenza. Nondimeno Eru è signore di tutto e userà per i suoi fini, che sono buoni, qualsiasi cosa una delle sue creature faccia o pensi, a suo dispetto o al suo servizio. Eppure dobbiamo pensare che egli non vuole che gli Eldar siano abbattuti dalle afflizioni che possono incontrare in Arda-corrotta, ma piuttosto dovrebbero ascendere a una maturazione che altrimenti sarebbe stata loro inaccessibile.
Perché Arda Non Corrotta ha due aspetti: il primo è il Non Corrotto che i Figli di Eru discernono presente ora nel Corrotto, se i loro occhi non sono appannati, e a cui anelano: questo è il terreno su cui è costruita la Speranza. Il secondo è il Non Corrotto che sarà nel futuro, cioè Arda Guarita, che sarà migliore della prima proprio grazie alla Corruzione: questa è la Speranza che sostiene.
I Valar non devono in generale avere certezze riguardo alle volontà dei Figli di Eru, e anche se in un caso particolare - come questo di Miriel - avessero una certezza, ciò non sarebbe capace di disfare l’unione di amore che un tempo c’era tra lei e il suo sposo, né sarebbe capace di cancellare il fatto che la fedeltà a questa unione (senza risposarsi) avrebbe condotto Finwe su una strada migliore, una strada più in accordo con Arda Non Corrotta e con la volontà di Eru che ha permesso che questa cosa gli capitasse. La Decisione dei Valar ha dato la libertà di percorrere una strada inferiore, e, accettando la Morte, contiene in sé la Morte, e non può guarirla. Usando di tale libertà il male della morte di Miriel continuerà ad avere potere e porterà frutti di sofferenza.
Infine parlò Mandos :
Manteniamo, o Valar, la nostra Decisione, perché è giusta. E’ nostro compito governare Arda, e consigliare i Figli di Eru. Di fatto dobbiamo svolgere tale compito in Arda-corrotta, e dichiarare cosa in essa è “giusto”. Nel consigliare certamente possiamo indicare la “strada superiore”, ma non possiamo costringere nessuno a percorrerla. Ciò porterebbe alla tirannia, la quale deformerebbe qualsiasi bene perché lo renderebbe odioso.
Il guarire attraverso la Speranza - come Manwe ha detto - è una legge che ciascuno può darsi solamente da sé stesso; dagli altri può essere richiesto soltanto un comportamento conforme alla giustizia. Un governante che, pur discernendo la giustizia, di essa non si accontentasse e richiedesse a un governato la rinuncia ai propri diritti e l’autosacrificio, non condurrà questo governato alla virtù - che è veramente tale solo se è libera - ma piuttosto alla ribellione contro la legge.
Ho trovato questa visione della vita e della morte molto vicina alla filosofia indù
-l'idea di reincarnazione per gli elfi è ricorrente in questi scritti, forse Tolkien volve una filosofia per gli Elfi completamente estranea a quella occidentale ed ha così preso spunto da quella orientale
- "In Arda corrotta la guarigione avviene solo attraverso la sofferenza e la pazienza" questo è un concetto prettamente induista (il buddismo infatti considera si la vita apparenza e sofferenza ma non ha un dio con una volontà che agisce, mentre per gli Elfi, oltre ai Valr un dio esiste eccome, ed Eru ha volontà, come ce l'hanno i Valer tant'è che ne discutono sul destino degli elfi)
- Arda-Corrotta; significa che non vi è la vera Arda ma ne è un mutamento, come l'indusimo in cui l'apparenza, falsa è chiamata "Maia".
...
Il secondo pezzo lo leggo e lo rileggo... ma lo trovo verament edifficile... ed affascintante...
(mica sto perdendo neuroni in giro?!)
P.s. Ear, ti prego...cambia quell'avatar! [B)]
P.s. Ear... mica mi manderesti il link dove hai ... comprato... la tua edizione della HotME
...
[:p][:p][:p][:p][:I][:p][:p][:p]
(Satanasso di un Christopher!![;)])
"Ma è nel carattere della mia gente di meno di quel che pensiamo, temiamo di dire troppo. Quando uno scherzo è fuori posto ci defrauda della parole giuste..."
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Modificato da - Rosie in data 16 luglio 2004 18:54:53 |
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Discussione |
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The history of The Middle-Earth
